Julie Bishop: Find a way to build a better world

Steven Baker:

It’s such a pleasure to be able to speak with you today. Thank you for joining us.

Julie Bishop:

Thank you, I appreciate the invitation!

Steven Baker:

I’ve heard you talk about four megatrends that are already disrupting Australia and the globe and will continue to do so far into the future. They are emerging technologies, shifts in geopolitical and economic power, a backlash against globalisation, and climate change. Let’s take them one at a time: How do we ensure we put regulations and guardrails in place around technological advances such as AI, quantum computing, genetic engineering and others without stifling innovation and creativity?

Julie Bishop:

This is a significant challenge as policy makers and legislators often lack detailed understanding of complex technological developments. The CEO of OpenAI has warned that unrestrained development could threaten humanity and has called upon U.S. Congressional leaders to impose regulations. However, this is a global challenge as technology companies can easily seek less restrictive regulatory environments elsewhere should they feel stifled in one jurisdiction. The response thus needs to be global, and that could be achieved through various means, including multilateral organisations and bilateral treaties between leading nations in these fields.

One of the significant hurdles for achieving global regulation is the interface between private sector development and that in defense and intelligence agencies. It will be difficult to convince national governments to be transparent in the development of advanced technologies currently subject to high-level security classifications. The precedent for how global cooperation could work is the response to the existential threat of nuclear weapons through the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). While not perfect, it has largely been effective in preventing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, albeit with a small number of notable failures.

I am optimistic as there is a significant effort underway to develop guardrails against the misuse of emerging and powerful technologies. This is occurring within governments, with a level of cooperation from the private sector and supported by higher learning institutions, including Australian National University through its advanced research centers in super computing, cybernetics and advanced science.

Steven Baker:

How should leaders navigate the shifts in geopolitical and economic power?

Julie Bishop:

Historically, times of significant shifts in geopolitical and economic power have been tumultuous. China’s rapid industrialisation and growth over the past 45 years has seen it challenge the dominant role of the United States in the global economy and in global affairs. This has been exemplified by President Xi’s Belt and Road initiative that mobilised billions of dollars in funds and supported a large increase in China’s outreach, to the developing world in particular. China has challenged the U.S. and multilateral organisations, including the World Bank, as the preferred partner for infrastructure development in many nations. It has also become more assertive in its territorial claims with some of its neighbors, including in the South China Sea and over Taiwan.

Leaders need to look as far ahead as possible and undertake scenario mapping and planning of the various outcomes, by considering all the key variables while trying to understand the implications of increasingly complex challenges. It is important to focus on areas of greatest rivalry between the competing powers. Technology and access to high-level computer chips is one area where that competition is intense as the U.S. seeks to maintain an advantage in cutting-edge technology development and has restricted sales to China. The U.S. is also considering the forced divestment of popular video streaming app TikTok, which is alleged to have close ties to the Chinese government, although the company disputes that.

China recently launched a World Trade Organisation challenge to U.S. electric vehicle subsidies. There are simmering tensions in many other areas of trade. The ability of organisations and government to balance their relationships with the U.S. and China is becoming increasingly difficult, and leaders need to be alert to areas where they may be forced to choose a longer-term partner.

Steven Baker:

What are some ways government leaders can, both here in Australia and globally, embrace globalism and its economic ideals?

Julie Bishop:

Globalism has brought great benefit to the world as it has been driven by the economic imperatives of efficiency, economies of scale, comparative advantage and global transport networks. This has provided an opportunity for many developing nations to more fully participate in global trade and to seek opportunities for improving their domestic economies. However, the COVID-19 pandemic exposed some vulnerabilities in supply chains, particularly the shortages of personal protective equipment in the early stages.

It is also important that governments acknowledge the negative impacts that globalism has had on some communities and to develop policy responses. For example, China’s rapid industrialisation had a significant impact on the manufacturing sectors of many developed nations, and that has created pockets of disadvantage and resentment. There must be full and frank discussions about globalism and its impacts, both positive and negative, so that we can adopt policies to gain the greatest benefit while mitigating the downsides.

Steven Baker:

Where do you see Australia’s role in combating climate change? Can it be an ESG and sustainability leader on the world stage?

Julie Bishop:

Climate change is a global problem and thus requires a coordinated international response. Australia can play a leading role in engaging with multilateral institutions and supporting the development of appropriate and effective policies. Our universities and scientific research agencies can play an important role in establishing an evidence base for both the impacts of climate change and to help identify the responses that gain the greatest benefit at the least cost.

One of the challenges for a coordinated international response has been a level of inconsistency from the United States in recent years: supporting the Paris COP21 agreement, then withdrawing from that agreement under the Trump Administration and rejoining under the Biden Administration. This places greater responsibility on other nations to maintain policy momentum, and Australia has played a responsible role in relevant forums.

Another critical element in the response to climate change is to achieve technological breakthroughs in clean energy so that baseload power can be generated at levels to sustain major cities and industries. Australia is also playing a role in the international research effort to unlock new sources of energy, including nuclear fusion and others.

Steven Baker:

How optimistic are you that governments around the world will be able to come together and cooperate to solve some of these huge issues the planet is facing?

Julie Bishop:

I am optimistic that humanity will rise to these challenges as there are serious, even unthinkable, implications from failure. However, that does not mean it will be a smooth road to finding appropriate responses. There are vastly differing governance models around the world and the policy development process can be markedly different. That means governments will seek to achieve the best possible outcome for their citizens to advance their national interests, and that inevitably means policy fragmentation. Leaders need to embrace and encourage full and open debates as that will allow them to consider and evaluate all the competing options and costs. It is vitally important to hear from different perspectives when the conversation involves these incredibly complex issues. Contestability is an important skill set for those leading policy debates and development.

Steven Baker:

Where do you see the private sector’s role in solving, or helping to solve, some of these big problems you just discussed? What steps can global business leaders take right now in the interest of doing both well and good?

Julie Bishop:

With regard to climate, the private sector can play an important role in driving technological breakthroughs and establishing mechanisms such as trading in carbon credits, when governments find such things difficult or virtually impossible. The private sector is also a significant source of carbon emissions and is thus in a position to have a major impact by adopting new technologies and approaches. The World Economic Forum releases a bi-annual report titled the Future of Jobs that surveys companies around the world about various impacts on employment. Technology has been identified as a major employment disruptor, although it is anticipated to create new jobs as it also displaces people from some roles. The report has identified a business model of technology being used to augment rather than replace the human workforce. However, that will require significant training and retraining on a scale that will need partnerships between government, the private sector and educational institutions. Global business leaders need to maintain open channels of communication with government so there is time to develop appropriate policy responses.

Steven Baker:

If we could, I’d like to talk about trust. So much of leadership is about trust. Less than half of Australians think their democracy is working. And there’s also declining institutional trust in the private sector, as well. How can we rebuild that trust?

Julie Bishop:

Transparency is one of the foundations of trust. One of the criticisms of many governments is that politicians have been captured by business elites and wealthy individuals, who allegedly collude to promote their interests to the detriment of the broader community. To build trust, it is important that there is timely reporting of political and campaign donations, and subsequent access to political leaders. Further, there needs to be greater transparency around many government decisions so the public can be confident the interests of the community were paramount. Political and business leaders need to engage openly in debates about alternative approaches to build community consensus for any responses.

Melanie Morrissey:

You were the first woman to hold the role of Foreign Minister and Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party, and you also served as the Minister for Women. How do we get more women in critical leadership positions in government? Are there lessons that we should learn from the private sector?

Julie Bishop:

The key is to build a pipeline of talented and experienced women from the grassroots level and this must involve mentoring networks and other supportive structures. One of the challenges is ensuring that merit remains the most important criteria for leadership, women often have a different style than men, and it is important for that to be recognised by those making decisions about promotions and judging the leadership qualities of candidates. With many workplaces dominated by male leaders, there is a need for improved awareness of the different leadership styles within the existing workforce.

Melanie Morrissey:

Thanks for that. With the current workforce representing five generations, and your role in education as the Chancellor of the Australian National University, how are you working with employers to build talent that meets their needs?

Julie Bishop:

It is a matter of looking as far ahead as possible and doing our best to anticipate the skills and knowledge that will be valuable to employers in a rapidly changing economy. One way that the Australian National University supports this goal is flexibility in degree design and choice. Undergraduates have virtually unlimited choices in designing their degrees so they can customise their learning experience to align with their career aspirations. The ANU undertakes regular liaison with private sector companies to better understand their needs for employee skills and also their research needs. Arguably, the biggest generational trend is convincing people of the need for lifelong learning as technology in particular increasingly disrupts many professions. We strive to equip our graduates with the critical thinking skills to allow them to more quickly adapt to changing conditions in the workplace and beyond.

Steven Baker:

You’re also dealing with significant disruption in higher education. What do you see as the biggest challenges there over the next few years and how are you addressing them?

Julie Bishop:

Technology will continue to disrupt education, and the emergence of AI tools is the most recent challenge. The ANU believes that rather than fighting against the inevitable, we should encourage students to leverage AI to elevate their knowledge and skills. The delivery of education also needs to evolve in response to student expectations. While many value the on-campus experience, there is a need to ensure remote and flexible access to lectures and other learning supports. The cost of education is also increasing, and students can be justified in having raised expectations of their university experience. At the ANU we have a significant residential on-campus student population, and we strive to have on-campus services and support to ensure students have a fulfilling and safe time within our institution.

Melanie Morrissey:

You’ve been generous with your time, and I have just two more quick questions: When you look out to 2030 and beyond, how optimistic are you we’ll get most of this right? Are better days ahead?

Julie Bishop:

I have faith that humanity will collectively respond to the challenges and any crises that may develop. We have shown remarkable resilience over the centuries, and while we may experience adversity at times, we have generally found a way to build a better world, and I expect that to continue. That said, the conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza illustrate that peace can be fragile and that violence can break out suddenly and unexpectedly, inflicting loss of life and suffering on civilian communities. Financial and economic crises can also emerge suddenly and overwhelm policymakers and the ability of governments to respond. The increasing complexity of our financial systems makes such crises less predictable and potentially more severe. So, while I remain optimistic that better days are ahead in the longer term, that does not mean there will not be difficult times and challenges on the way there.

Melanie Morrissey:

Can you give me one bold prediction on anything we’ve discussed, or perhaps didn’t discuss, about either Australia or the world a decade from now? What’s something that may surprise us in 2034?

Julie Bishop:

New forms of energy always seem to be about a decade away, however the emergence of super and quantum computers will hopefully accelerate development and discovery of a new and clean source of energy that allows us to transition away from fossil fuels.